Imagine a girl you like putting a hand on your shoulder, looking into your eyes, saying some gentle word I don’t quite remember due to being mesmerized by those eyes, and you know what I did? I just looked back uneasily for a few seconds, then nervously took her hand off my shoulder, shook it a bit, released it and awkwardly smiled. (That even wasn’t her last attempt to make me happy against my best efforts ; ended bad anyway.)

There are many things further down the road to go wrong with attractive popular girls. 2 most catastrophic cases in my life are with those such as them.

Admittedly I’m the one who mainly failed them due to misunderstandings and passiveness, but when a girl (being all that popular) is used to boys being rather active and competitive and social, and then you are here just cause she happened to like your looks, this may end painfully, for you more than for her.

There are also cases from the post, only I may have noticed, just wouldn’t risk losing an existing good friendship for possible romance.

I do. I have the way you’re describing people afterwards.

That quote is self-contradictory.

I have a lifetime of experience dealing with people who talk the exact same way about people.

Your experience isn’t worth anything as an argument. What does it even mean, we all have lifetime experiences of dealing with people.

Tone IS important.

Yes, but failure in choosing more pleasant tone is not fatal, it can be, eh, possibly endured, while pretending that a mistake is not a mistake certainly poisons everything in the conversation after it.

“Normie” is an insult for those who say or behave the way implying that you yourself are not normal. It’s not as if it was hard to find people matching the criterion.

And frankly for socialization people dance, tell anecdotes and do other similar things. In an argument correctness is the goal.

Thx. Saw recently a piece of good advice of “if you’re not ashamed to think it, you shouldn’t be ashamed to say it” and probably Lemmy was not the place to say it, LOL.

This particular thread started about people being incorrect and arrogant to the degree that they, for example, consider correctness less important than socialization, and thus there being a niche for using the word “normies”.

If pointing out confident incorrectness is condescending, then so it is.

If you think people should treat you as being correct when you are incorrect out of wish to be perceived as more sociable - then you are wrong, tone is bearable, incorrectness just makes it waste of time.

You just sound condescending, and of this is how you talk in real life, I get why some people don’t react positively.

Actually they do react positively, because I usually communicate IRL to people who look at the meaning, not the tone, quite often smarter than me. I actually happen to be the polite one. My social problems are in a different dimension.

before and during

You have no information at all to draw anything on that.

after a single interaction

On that neither.

is very indicative of you being generally judgemental and rude

Now - yes.

traits that will increase the probability that people will be disrespectful to you

The saddest thing is that people IRL respect me more when I’m in this mood. Including romantic interests. And when I’m respectful, ready to believe in people and so on, it’s different.

That’s the key actually - one doesn’t trust a dog not to eat chocolate left on the table unsupervised. One doesn’t trust friends with known errors not to err this way again. I think this is the root problem, but too lazy to elaborate.

This second comment of yours has only further convinced me.

You’ve assumed too much (see above) to pretend that it was my comment which convinced you of anything. You came with your opinion without any intent to change it. You got what you wanted. That, of course, reduces the value of your comments to virtually zero.

I’m a bit of that myself. Not as much about green stuff, global warming etc, but it doesn’t require much specifics to remember that there are “a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together”.

Yes, I know.

A bit tired of posting in this thread with nasty emotions from cold because, well, I do have cold now.

That wild stuff clicks very much. FFS, it clicks every bloody time. Smells, moves, tone, appearances, things we discuss.

I mean, for some time. It doesn’t click when you’re sick, don’t sleep well and drink atrocious volumes of tea with sugar without doing any sports, also being tired all the time. Usually, cause, say, the last time it clicked even in these conditions.

Nah, problems start with deep text communication, and the scary thing is that I say all the same things that I say in person. Just emotions she gets while I’m talking IRL are completely different from those she gets from my text, while it’s really the same for me.

Ah, to your comment’s starting line - I didn’t mean being dated by being accepted. You can reject someone still making them feel accepted. I’ve done that a couple of times. Was at some point starting to think it looks differently from the other side, but relatively recently got a rejection of this kind and it is so much better that it doesn’t feel like a catastrophe at all.

Your comment doesn’t make sense, I’m calling them that after the fact, not during the fact, and order of the sequence matters.

EDIT: Which means that you both failed to understand a simple sentiment and yet showed the typical arrogance to talk about “rightfully so”. So yeah, I’d say you are not particularly smart. After you showed that, again. Not before.

A completely useless comment.

EDIT:

Half my complaints are about immoral (in my opinion, which is about half of what’s important between two people, half is a lot) people pretending to be moral, while I’m making lots of effort to clarify who I am and who they are before allowing myself any feelings.

Another half is about misunderstandings with people I’d die for.

I’d be fine with being completely alone if I confidently knew that I’ve never met ones of the second kind with romantic perspective, and that I’ve never mistaken the first kind for the second kind.

The problem is that I’m not sure about the former and the latter happens and takes too much time and effort.

I’m definitely not complaining about people like you or those that would consider you normal not liking me. I don’t want you or your kind to like me. Is that clear?

I mean, you start with admitting your failure at reading comprehension. Why should I explore your reply further?

Looking through it diagonally - your choice of words, like “bitter”, “whine” and “entitledness” doesn’t really raise expectations.

The first part is some picture of me painted by your imagination without regard for my comments which admittedly contain a lot of text, often redundant.

The second part is pure demagogy without any essence with some traits of how people bad at motivational rhetoric imagine it.

I mean, however I would feel about various events in my life, I’m happy (literally, this comparison makes me feel much better right now) I’m not you.

If you are reading this expecting to find some answer to your opinions on me, and not a description of you, there will be none.

No, the “negativity and positivity” folks are the kind I don’t wanna even to argue with. No, thanks.

One my friend, 7 years older than me, still depends on his parents to pay his rent. He talks like you about “negativity” and “positivity”, a lot. It would seem that attracting people is one of the few things he can do. He is my friend regardless of faults and mistakes, but if I were like you, he probably wouldn’t be.

Another my friend blabbers about “negativity and positivity” too, but sometimes posts really long walls of hardly-comprehensible maniacal texts at 2 AM involving lots of emotions. She doesn’t want to visit a psychiatrist. On a brighter side, she’s the only person which talks to me after the rejection just as well as before, and the rejection itself she managed to do right - simply by being human.

This is not a reason. I have a friend with the same amount of “negativity” as myself, that friend is a girl too, though. Helped me through hard times. She does have same problems as I do, but for girls it’s different.

And my sister’s boyfriend is of the “multiple suicide attempts” kind and his relative cheerfulness doesn’t quite seem cheerful.

And my cousins’ dad has PTSD from war, he’s a very cheerful man often, but he doesn’t treat “negativity” as something justifying what you justify.

Other than that, you having a cold or a food poisoning is also unattractive. Same with depression. These things come and go.

It’s cowardly and disgusting to discard people for this reason. I wouldn’t do that, I’m just surprised every time that for others it’s normal.

Also if you do that, then at least be direct and don’t behave as if it’s another’s fault, because that another is going to waste lots of effort and emotion to find out that they’ve done nothing wrong, it’s just that your parents have failed.

EDIT: Yep, didn’t want to argue that and wrote a rant.

You’re positively comparing something you do to lynching.

No, I’m obviously comparing things acceptable to others “just because I don’t want to bother being kinder and more respectful and having a normal direct conversation” which I’m not doing to lynching.

Also just ascribing wrong meanings to what I say or write or do (and not even trying to clarify those) is one of the main surface reasons I have these problems. At least every one openly expressed by the other side is attributing some position or opinion to me which clearly isn’t the reality.

While there is that principle of “who wants, looks for opportunities, and who doesn’t, looks for excuses”, it’s still unclear for me whether there is some reason people are unwilling to express though I’m literally asking for it, or just explaining themselves is really so hard, so it’s about misunderstandings.

Or maybe girls just see my attempts to clarify things as lack of dignity and weakness, which would be the opposite to what I think.

Above all else that’s why you’re single. Well the reason behind it is.

I mean, independently of that question, above all else you are just illustrating that wrong category of humans I’m talking about.

They too like to interpret my words however they like to justify their behavior, while openly trying to prevent me from clarifying what I meant which would make their interpretation wrong. It’s really sad when someone won’t even criticize you honestly.

And when it’s a girl I care for, I can’t treat her opinion as easily as yours, it becomes some center of existence, heart of humanity for me. That is a problem, yes. Only it alone doesn’t explain everything. There still should be something explaining why that girl wouldn’t break up without almost saying I am defective. It usually does coincide in time with her becoming that center of existence, but why does that create negative vibes or something, I don’t know.

And you’re not describing something desirable. Like looking for someone fun may not result in something great but looking for people you feel good around who want the same thing as you does result in amazing things.

People with cold are not fun, people with broken limbs are not fun, people with food poisoning are not fun. They also may not want the same thing as you. They are actually kinda miserable and uninteresting while still sick. Same for people with depression.

Somehow I don’t just discard friends who got sick. Others usually don’t as well. But somehow with depression it becomes normal for many people.

Humanity is irrelevant here. What about the humanity of the other people. Willing association is key. Divorce is sacred

It’s relevant to what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about people just cutting it down long after you’ve expressed most of what you’d want to express about yourself, down to the core, and then not taking any effort to make it less painful.

Silently and abruptly, looking at you the “oh, it’s so bad that you are so miserable, but just get lost, you’re annoying” way, and when being asked a to give some idea as to why, saying both not very specific and rather unpleasant things like “you should do something to your emotions” and “you have an image of a teenager” and “a shaking leaf taking lots of time for basic social actions”.

I’m not talking about unwillingness, but when you aren’t willing to associate anymore, and that does hurt another person, it would be decent to say some parting words with more meaning than, in short, “you look and behave kinda cute, which is why I started talking to you, but you are really not alpha enough with those emotions for me, so sad you exist”. That is, maybe if I should do something about those emotions, then she herself should also be a bit more tactful and not just go with the hormones and vibes ape path while breaking up?

Divorce is sacred

You’ve used another short sentence with the same meaning as the previous one, as if you have me figured out completely and that reprise in your comment as an artful mean is worth more effort. Since it falls completely off-target, that looks stupid.

Not quite the word. I’m often ignorant too. It’s rather about ignorance coupled with arrogance and habit of underlining one’s better socialization.

So calling someone a normie kinda implies that they are proud of being a normie, they just would use other words to say it.

Be who you want to be and accept that not everyone wants that person.

That’d be easy when rejected outright. Not when your contacts with the person you like have made you lower your guard and start believing that they may accept you, and then they just … throw you out.

I’m starting to appreciate the traditional way, where you know whom you can meet and possibly marry and whom you can’t. It’s a cultural thing, and some people’s upbringing is just incompatible with mine. I wouldn’t ever do anything like that to a person who’d like me even if I didn’t like them, it’s like throwing out a dog or a cat.

A bit like those societies where lynching is normal - if it’s a crowd doing it, then it’s not a crime. So having grown up in many families, girls and boys think that if for some reason another side seems weak or ill or depressed and in general not fun, that requires no effort on their side, just look for someone more fun, no humanity required. I fail to see how such people are going to create families of their own and have children, though.

I don’t think somebody taking one girl’s refusal that hard would be quick to judge others.

No, this doesn’t help. A specific person you care for can’t be diminished into that general “attention” thing.

So you look at yourself more critically. Then something like what’s described in the post happens, and then you still feel pain, but it’s dull and you can’t locate it, so to say, because in the universe you imagine after such advice you’ll find plenty of reasons you are flawed and nobody should look at you.

And then after some time you understand that the pain is there because really everybody has flaws, “that other guy” included. It’s just that you haven’t been accepted and “that other guy” has been. Somehow your flaws were worse and your advantages not as significant as those of “that other guy”.

And - everybody wants to be accepted, without being the best and the coolest. Just for being a human.

That word is used to express the feeling you get when some better socialized, but not particularly smart or competent or educated or understanding people disrespect your hobbies/expertise/opinions/feelings while you don’t disrespect theirs.

I use it sometimes. More often in periods after once again forcing myself to believe that maybe I shouldn’t look at people this way and maybe I’m wrong, and then getting wounded once again.

Exactly.