I just want to point out that recent court rulings on Alphabet’s business may threaten the future of Mozilla because they may not get revenue from making Google the default search engine.
Can we start a petition to NOT add AI bullshit to our browser?
Just point to all current shitty machine learning models and how fucked up they are
The hatred is partly fuelled by people in the open source community getting really riled up when they find out some open source projects are developed by organizations that need to earn money and pay their employees, be it Red Hat, Canonical, GNOME, Mozilla, or anything else. Female leadership will tend to push people over the edge.
In addition to the usual rage-fuelled misogyny of open source forums, there is however also valid concern out there. It can be difficult to hear through the noise.
Mozilla’s job listings provide some insight to what many consider to be a red flag for the way forward. To work on FireFox, they are looking for:
- Senior Staff Machine Learning Engineer, Gen AI
- Senior Director of Product, Firefox Growth
- Principal Product Manager, Generative AI
- Senior Software Engineer - Layout (CSS and ICU4X Support)
- Staff Machine Learning Engineer, Gen AI
- Staff Full-stack Engineer - Generative AI
- Senior Front End Engineer, Gen AI
- Senior Front-End Engineer, Firefox
- Front-End Engineer, Firefox
- Staff Software Engineer - Credential Management
- Staff Software Engineer - Release Engineering
- Senior Front-End Software Engineer, New Tab
For fairness I include every position, highlighting in bold the ones I think are likely to do more harm than good. This is not the direction I want FireFox to take, and I believe Mozilla are misguided to try to place themselves as the ethical AI actor. That said I’m not 100% against it all of the time - I do think the local in-browser machine translation feature of newer releases is great. But I don’t think I want much more than that, and even this feature should probably have been an optional plug-in.
There’s also some former empolyees voicing valid concerns.
In short, I think the legitimate criticism boils down to:
- Buying into the AI hype
- Flirting with “more ethical” ads and tracking, rather than being unquestionably on the user’s side of just blocking it all
- Doing too many things nobody asked for, arguably while not paying enough attention to FireFox
- Appearing distant from the community and unresponsive to its preferences
- Paying company leadership too much
I don’t really buy into point 3 personally. I use FireFox every day and it’s by far the best browser I have ever had. It never gives me any problems at all, and password sync with Android is really useful. I wish it would support JPG XL, but that’s pretty much it in terms of complaints on my end.
I really wanted Mozilla to solve the unintrusive ads problem. A couple of years ago it seemed they were the only ones barely capable of working with it and not being destroyed.
But it looks like I overestimated them. They seem to be getting destroyed.
Their current userbase is not their target userbase. They are trying to reach a more mainstream audience but all of their attempts to monetize are seen as useless by their current userbase.
- They want to increase revenue w/ ads - A loud swath of FF users are tech savvy and have adblocking enabled
- They want to pivot towards AI - A loud swath of FF users see AI as gimmicky
Repeat ad-nauseum
It really is strange. They really should be copying the success of the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikipedia.
Especially right now as Google is truly finally breaking a lot of adblocking and pushing a fight with adblockers in the YouTube space.
It’s a perfect storm of opportunity to stand out as a solid, differing offer, but they’re going to blow it as usual.
I’m willing to bet that the people who switch to Firefox for ad-blockers and ad-free YouTube aren’t the kinds of people who are donating much to Mozilla. People in online forums talk a big game about wanting to pay for products and not be the product. But it seems like people don’t really want to pay any meaningful amount of money for a browser.
the people who switch to Firefox for ad-blockers and ad-free YouTube aren’t the kinds of people who are donating much to Mozilla
I went to donate to Mozilla when I switched back to it from chrome early last year. It said on their website by the donate link, which was very difficult to find, that the proceeds from those donations did not go towards firefox but towards their other projects.
I don’t know if that’s the case today, but there was no way to contribute to firefox directly when I sought it out, or at least not in a way I could find. Maybe it was a stipulation of the Googlegeld, idk.
They really should be copying the success of the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikipedia
Step 1: Be hilariously wealthy from prior investments and businesses Step 2: Do a thing nobody has ever done before at a time when interest rates mean money is free Step 3: Blind luck
I’m not sure how they’re supposed to reproduce those at this point.
Yeah, the amount of money they get from donations is so tiny compared to what they need for developing Firefox, that they don’t even divert it for Firefox.
They use it for activism, community work and in the past, they’ve also passed it on to other open-source projects, which are also important for the web but don’t have the infrastructure or public awareness to get donations directly.I’m not donating to them because of where the money goes. Would donate to Firefox the moment it becomes possible.
They also used that money to pay one of their C-suite employees a $7m dollar salary.
That’s unnecessary. Everything upwards of like 300k is not salary, it’s business money. That person is a natural business.
Big difference to the Wikimedia Foundation is how much money they need. The Mozilla Corporation (which develops Firefox) has around 750 employees.
Optimistically, only 500 of those are devs and work on Firefox. If you pay those a wage of 100,000 USD, that makes 50 million USD of costs just for wages.
Firefox has less than 200 million monthly active users, so everyone using it would need to donate $0.25, or alternatively 1% of users would need to donate $25, yearly.
That’s a lot of money to hope people donate, and this is a very optimistic ballpark estimate.
I don’t understand why cryptocurrency isn’t an accepted solution to this. Open firefox, attach wallet, drip $0.25/month/user. It’s good for tiny transactions.
Because crypto just has such a stink on it.
It may well be a reasonable solution for this specific problem, but still… no one is going to get behind this.
Yes now it does, it’s beyond soured. But it’s a strange disconnect. Ignoring all the social commentary and looking for the most practical solution for making small pay-per-use payments - it was right there.
Maaaaaybe. I think the actual advantages over other methods are fairly intangible.
If “surfing the web” required making many very small anonymous payments every hour then yeah, there’s advantages. I’ll admit that doesn’t actually sound terrible - I’d rather pay a few cents to read articles than the current advertising & subscription model.
As a solution for mozilla in isolation though, it would be an over engineered solution with too much baggage. Current mozilla users might have the aptitude for something like this but Mozilla wants to seduce a larger market share which is not people like us.
Ya I think the ship has sailed, maybe one day. Right now it would be a loony toons move.
They’ve had to hire three new interns just to carry around my enormous pile of tabs.
Capitalism, fucking everything up, same as everywhere.
What caused you to ask? I feel like this is a very loaded question
They recently announced that they are shutting down their mastodon instance.
deleted by creator
It’s been fighting King Kong.
wasn’t there a thing that google was paying them tons to be default search and that likely will soon stop due to antimonopoly cases… so they need a new cash cow.
Google pays them millions to be competition to stop an antitrust lawsuit.
This was always the conspiracy. I don’t really buy it though. Having firefox’ user base default to Google search is worth something.
They’re trying to be the MSN of the 2020s but their userbase has zero interest in advertising or AI slop. It’s not going well and they refuse to focus on their core product.
Just Mozilla things. /s
Not much, what’s going on with you?
The best we got on the browser front. Use forks tho.
They’re selling out.
